I would appreciate a drawing/diagram showing the normal main sheet block and pulley system used buy some of you. Where too would be the best spot to place the jib leads and cleats for best results. The old wooden set up seem to cry out for a upgrade .
I used to race mirrors & have seen just about all possible variations on the running rigging theme. When I rebuilt Waterloo I spent some time looking at all the options but in the end decided to go with the old tried & tested system as it keeps the decks, benches & thwarts clear of clutter. Jib cleats on the thwarts will only work if your jib is cut for this option. Otherwise I allowed for a centre main, which I don't use, But I did allow for a vang system and I upgraded all blocks to good quality. Basically if it aint broke don't fix it.
Dave.
Dave, thanks for the quick follow up. The page/link show above my first comments is no longer available. "File on Basic Set-up"
The idea of jibs for these boats being cut diffidently comes as news to me. Clearly, I have a great deal more to look at. Perhaps once I stand the rig, some of this will become clearer.
The Mirror class rules for the jib give a maximum dimension for the three edges of the sail. Older sails (in the UK) were very often built by Jeckalls. A picture of one can be seen on http://www.pixstel.com/mirror-dinghy-daydream-_urlt333.php
Presumably these were made so all the edges were to maximum size.
The racing boats in our home waters all seem to be using a different shape sail similar to the ones on http://ullmansails.co.uk/dinghies-mirror.htm
The luff is much shorter. It is very likely the foot and leech are to maximum size. The result is a very low clewed sail which nobody can see under and so sail windows are usually fitted.
A rough guide for positioning the fairleads is to draw a straight line from mid luff to clew and continue this line until it meets a part of the boat which could form a mounting point for the fairlead.
The older Jeckalls sails were originally sheeted to the wooden fairleads on the gunwale but many of us have repositioned the fairleads on the side decks while retaining the same sheeting angle (the line from mid luff to clew). Sheets normally go inside the shrouds.
The low clewed sails need to have their fairleads mounted further forward but most of these boats seem to be fitted with fairleads on the outboard ends of the thwart. Either way the sheet angle relative to the sail follows the same basic rules.
There is normally some scope for fine tuning the sail to match the fairlead by sliding the sail up or down the forestay. In stronger winds setting the sail low down will allow it to twist off and spill wind off the leech. In lighter winds it can be eased upwards to power it up more.
If we go back to the first picture there are a few points worth mentioning.
Firstly this is me on my boat but the photographer decided to take the picture anyway and attempt to sell it on the internet.
The jib halyard is too tight for the light winds. See how the luff tape distorts the luff of the sail.
The mainsail is suffering from a shrunken luff rope. What happens here is that in use the luff rope fibres fluff up and the rope ends up shorter and thicker than when it started. The first sign this has happened is horizontal creases from each lacing eyelet which won't go away even with the downhaul on hard. The normal cure is to cut the stitching holding the luff rope to the tack of the sail stretch the sailcloth out and re sew. A very simple job for a sailmaker. The sail in the picture actually had the luff rope spliced around the tack thimble and I ended up having to open up the luff, cut the rope and sew a 2 " piece into the gap. Once the luff was sewn back up the sail set properly but the luff rope continued to shrink. I was losing confidence in the overall strength of this sail so I replaced it.
The reef was put in by Trident UK of Gateshead. Any sailmaker could do it. It is in about the right place. On the new sail I put the reef in myself making it 3" deeper. I moved the reef points towards the luff slightly to make the aft one easier to reach.
Oars are 7'10" Plastimo and this is my usual "paddle sailing" method for very light conditions. Row with the oar the same side as the boom. Steer with the other hand. Sheet the sails in a little tighter than usual. This method is incredibly effective and convenient
The idea of getting out on the water with a setup that does not work or does not suit can be very frustrating. And trying to work out a rig setup while not on the water does not work at all. So, when I get a new boat or have a new Idea I like to read as much as possible to get some knowledge. A good general info source is 'Rigging small sailboats' from the Glen L website and google mirror dinghy rigging etc.
Then I get the boat on its trailer or trolley or whatever you have, make sure it is stable and put the mast up. If it is fairly calm then the jib can be hoisted and you can fiddle around with it getting some ideas as you go. As for the main, I attach the boom on the mast then I attach the main halliard to the boom towards the aft and hoist it to approx. the right sailing height. Then various systems and ideas can be tried at you leisure. If you need to reposition fittings etc this can be done easily while on land and you can get some ideas about what works & what doesn't. I then hit the water with the gear & ideas to try various methods that I like and from here you can figure out the best system to suit you.
It really is a matter of working out your own preferences. Just remember that the racing boys will sacrifice just about anything in pursuit of an extra one or two percent, and this is fine. I did this when I was racing but now I prefer ease of use and comfort. Getting from A to B in the fastest possible time is at the bottom of my list these days. Hope this gives you some ideas.
Dave.
soapysails
Thu, 12/04/2014 - 20:57
Permalink
Main sheet rigging
I would appreciate a drawing/diagram showing the normal main sheet block and pulley system used buy some of you. Where too would be the best spot to place the jib leads and cleats for best results. The old wooden set up seem to cry out for a upgrade .
Thanks
Steam Tech
Thu, 12/04/2014 - 21:14
Permalink
It al depends on use.
I used to race mirrors & have seen just about all possible variations on the running rigging theme. When I rebuilt Waterloo I spent some time looking at all the options but in the end decided to go with the old tried & tested system as it keeps the decks, benches & thwarts clear of clutter. Jib cleats on the thwarts will only work if your jib is cut for this option. Otherwise I allowed for a centre main, which I don't use, But I did allow for a vang system and I upgraded all blocks to good quality. Basically if it aint broke don't fix it.
Dave.
soapysails
Thu, 12/04/2014 - 23:17
Permalink
Main sheet rigging
Dave, thanks for the quick follow up. The page/link show above my first comments is no longer available. "File on Basic Set-up"
The idea of jibs for these boats being cut diffidently comes as news to me. Clearly, I have a great deal more to look at. Perhaps once I stand the rig, some of this will become clearer.
mirrorpete
Fri, 12/05/2014 - 10:49
Permalink
Rigging
A new link has been entered above that now works.
Pete
soapysails
Fri, 12/19/2014 - 16:19
Permalink
rigging
Thanks Pete and Happy Holidays
sail_and_oar
Fri, 12/05/2014 - 17:53
Permalink
Different cuts of jib
The Mirror class rules for the jib give a maximum dimension for the three edges of the sail. Older sails (in the UK) were very often built by Jeckalls. A picture of one can be seen on
http://www.pixstel.com/mirror-dinghy-daydream-_urlt333.php
Presumably these were made so all the edges were to maximum size.
The racing boats in our home waters all seem to be using a different shape sail similar to the ones on
http://ullmansails.co.uk/dinghies-mirror.htm
The luff is much shorter. It is very likely the foot and leech are to maximum size. The result is a very low clewed sail which nobody can see under and so sail windows are usually fitted.
A rough guide for positioning the fairleads is to draw a straight line from mid luff to clew and continue this line until it meets a part of the boat which could form a mounting point for the fairlead.
The older Jeckalls sails were originally sheeted to the wooden fairleads on the gunwale but many of us have repositioned the fairleads on the side decks while retaining the same sheeting angle (the line from mid luff to clew). Sheets normally go inside the shrouds.
The low clewed sails need to have their fairleads mounted further forward but most of these boats seem to be fitted with fairleads on the outboard ends of the thwart. Either way the sheet angle relative to the sail follows the same basic rules.
There is normally some scope for fine tuning the sail to match the fairlead by sliding the sail up or down the forestay. In stronger winds setting the sail low down will allow it to twist off and spill wind off the leech. In lighter winds it can be eased upwards to power it up more.
If we go back to the first picture there are a few points worth mentioning.
Firstly this is me on my boat but the photographer decided to take the picture anyway and attempt to sell it on the internet.
The jib halyard is too tight for the light winds. See how the luff tape distorts the luff of the sail.
The mainsail is suffering from a shrunken luff rope. What happens here is that in use the luff rope fibres fluff up and the rope ends up shorter and thicker than when it started. The first sign this has happened is horizontal creases from each lacing eyelet which won't go away even with the downhaul on hard. The normal cure is to cut the stitching holding the luff rope to the tack of the sail stretch the sailcloth out and re sew. A very simple job for a sailmaker. The sail in the picture actually had the luff rope spliced around the tack thimble and I ended up having to open up the luff, cut the rope and sew a 2 " piece into the gap. Once the luff was sewn back up the sail set properly but the luff rope continued to shrink. I was losing confidence in the overall strength of this sail so I replaced it.
The reef was put in by Trident UK of Gateshead. Any sailmaker could do it. It is in about the right place. On the new sail I put the reef in myself making it 3" deeper. I moved the reef points towards the luff slightly to make the aft one easier to reach.
Oars are 7'10" Plastimo and this is my usual "paddle sailing" method for very light conditions. Row with the oar the same side as the boom. Steer with the other hand. Sheet the sails in a little tighter than usual. This method is incredibly effective and convenient
Cliff
soapysails
Fri, 12/19/2014 - 16:25
Permalink
Different cuts of jib
Cliff, you comments are excellent ! not to mention, easy to understand.
I will take note..thank you
Steam Tech
Fri, 12/05/2014 - 22:18
Permalink
Running Rigging Trial
The idea of getting out on the water with a setup that does not work or does not suit can be very frustrating. And trying to work out a rig setup while not on the water does not work at all. So, when I get a new boat or have a new Idea I like to read as much as possible to get some knowledge. A good general info source is 'Rigging small sailboats' from the Glen L website and google mirror dinghy rigging etc.
Then I get the boat on its trailer or trolley or whatever you have, make sure it is stable and put the mast up. If it is fairly calm then the jib can be hoisted and you can fiddle around with it getting some ideas as you go. As for the main, I attach the boom on the mast then I attach the main halliard to the boom towards the aft and hoist it to approx. the right sailing height. Then various systems and ideas can be tried at you leisure. If you need to reposition fittings etc this can be done easily while on land and you can get some ideas about what works & what doesn't. I then hit the water with the gear & ideas to try various methods that I like and from here you can figure out the best system to suit you.
It really is a matter of working out your own preferences. Just remember that the racing boys will sacrifice just about anything in pursuit of an extra one or two percent, and this is fine. I did this when I was racing but now I prefer ease of use and comfort. Getting from A to B in the fastest possible time is at the bottom of my list these days. Hope this gives you some ideas.
Dave.
soapysails
Fri, 12/19/2014 - 16:29
Permalink
Running Rigging Trial
Dave, It seems you and I are in the same boat :) At 71, winning races has dropped in standing somewhat from my must do list.