Patched hole found

Submitted by Jonnym on Sat, 07/23/2016 - 15:45

Forums:

Hello
As mentioned in an earlier post I'm very new to the mirror and sailing world, so please forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology.

I've just found a dodgy looking patch in the front buoyancy tank. It looks like expanding foam with fiber glass over the top, which hasn't been wetted down nearly enough. It also looks like its been glassed as the foam was still expanding and its pushed the glass off. I can appreciate that access is very tight through the inspection hole, but it looks wrong.

The bottom of the hull looks fairly good. Tapping across the patch, which is not that obvious, the sound barely changes leading me to think the patch is probably wood.

I also noticed one of the rope cams on the side of the boat was loose. Would it be alright to put a strengthing upright on it by gluing a piece of marine ply or solid hardwood to its base the side of the boat and on to the top of the side buoyancy tank. I was intending to use a D4 PU glue which I know is also used on oars but have heard alot mention marine epoxy. D4 PU glue is intended for constant submersion and is usually stronger than the timber it attches to, would this be OK?

Thanks

Jon

mirrorpete

Sun, 07/24/2016 - 11:18

A very common epoxy used with wooden boats is West Epoxy.

Pete

David Cooper

Mon, 07/25/2016 - 19:43

I'm no expert on repairs of that kind as I've never had to do any, but it does look like a temporary repair rather than an attempt to do a permanent one, although it is a hard place to reach, so the idea may simply have been to throw enough material at it to do the job without worrying about what it looks like. I'd be tempted to leave it as it is for now and keep checking the outside from time to time to see how well it's holding up - so long as it feels strong enough and isn't leaking, it may be fine to leave it as is, but any sign that the wood might be beginning to rot round the edge or that the internal part of the patch isn't holding together and I'd rip the whole thing off and try to repair it properly.

As for the rope cam, I'm guessing that you're talking about the cleats used to stop the jib pulling its sheet (rope) back out through the fairlead. When you say it's loose, do you mean that the wooden bit the cleats are attached to is loose from the gunwale? If so, I'd detach it from the gunwale and see if there's a rot problem around the screws that hold it on, and if that's the case, I'd think about drilling out the rotten wood and reattach the part using Araldite and bigger screws, or I might bolt it right through the gunwale (sawing off the ends of the bolts and putting a blob of Araldite over the nuts to prevent them damaging anything they might scrape against.

I'd also look carefully at the shroud and forestay attachment points to see if the any of the screws there are going into rotten wood - these can pull out if there's a rot problem, and that means the mast can fall down (potentially on someone's head), so it isn't something you should leave to chance. Having had a mast fall down in this way, I would always replace the screws with bolts going right through the side of the boat (with the nuts on the outside). The metal fittings themselves can corrode and snap too, so you should take them off anyway to see the hidden side and check for any corrosion there - on the other occasion when my mast fell down, the whole back of my forestay fitting appeared to have disolved away, leading to it splitting in half. I wouldn't use that kind of fitting again as a result - it's better to use stainless steel racks (which also have the advantage of providing multiple pin positions). I also realised something else from this though - in strong winds, you don't want to have any passenger on any sailing dinghy sitting where a mast can fall on them, so all crew need to stay away from the middle of the boat. If a shroud rips out the forestay will make the mast fall sideways and slightly forwards (which shouldn't harm anyone on your boat, but may still be lethal if you're sailing alongside another boat), but if the forestay rips out the mast will fall straight backwards.

The screws holding the rudder fittings to the transom (the pintle and gudgeon) may also be going into rotten wood, so again it would be worth checking - I've had a rudder rip out because of this too, which isn't a lot of fun. Again this can be fixed using bigger screws and Araldite, but the best solution is to bolt them right though the transom (although that's only possible if you have an inspection hole that gives you access to the rear buoyancy tank).

The point where the rowlocks are is rather weak on Mirrors - strong rowers can break the side of the boat by putting a high force through the wood there, so anyone who plans to row a lot would do well to reinforce the side by doubling the thickness of the wood there from under the gunwale right down to the deck, perhaps along a stretch of twelve inches or more to spread the forces better without flexing.

Looking at the photo of your boat in the other thread, the bungee on the thwart looks as if it may need replacing as it shouldn't be that slack - it's used to stop the dagger board sliding up/down by pressing against it from thwart end of the slot.

Jonnym

Fri, 07/29/2016 - 10:34

Thanks again.

I have my work cut out deciphering where most of the things you have mentioned are, but I've got to learn at some point!

Your right I mean the cleats. I took a good look and realised that the sides of the boat is curved but the block the cleat was mounted on wasn't. It looks to have worked for a longtime previously, but I may have used it as a lashing point for the trailer :-(.

I've curved it a bit and glued it back on with PU D4 glue which has filling properties and screwed with slightly fatter screws. No rot present there or anywhere else so far. I've been round a few of the screws and nipped them up and haven't found any loose or rotten. The sail adaptions sound good, I will look out for the kit to do it.

The patch is a worry but looks to work. I still haven't picked up my oars so haven't tried it in the water, so fingers crossed.

Thanks again for you time it's much appreciated.

Jon

David Cooper

Fri, 07/29/2016 - 17:48

Not sure what you mean by sail adaptions, but perhaps you mean adaptations related to when you're sailing. I was describing the points where the three stays (wires) that hold the mast up (two shrouds and forestay) attach to the hull. There are five of these points, though you only ever use three of them at a time - there are two positions where you can put the bottom of the mast, but the one used normally is the one that's further back. If you ever want to sail with just the mainsail and without the jib, the boat is slightly better balanced if you put the mast up in the forward position, and the shrouds would then need to be attached further forwards too (which is why there are five of those metal fittings rather than just three), though I've never sailed with the mast in that position.

By the way, it's hard to tell from your photo in the other thread whether you've got all the parts or not, but you can try rigging it on a calm day, pointing the bow towards any wind that there is, and raise the sails, then take a few photographs for us to look at. I don't see a kicking strap in your photo - that's a rope used to stop the boom lifting up, anchored at one end somewhere low down below the mast (ahead of the daggerboard case) and running up from there at an angle to go over the boom where there's a projection of some kind designed to stop the rope sliding forwards from there. The reason the daggerboard has one corner cut off at an angle is to let the kicking strap pass it without catching when the board's partially raised.