How far is too far gone?

Submitted by Wet Old Wobbler on Fri, 08/26/2016 - 18:06

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While I'm a skilled at most sorts of repairs and enjoy the task of restoring things I often miss the point when something is too far gone to be an economic repair.

With Mirror's at what point do you call it a day?

So far I'm looking at over £300 worth of wood panels from Trident, then epoxy, tape, nails, screws and then primer, undercoat and top coat so I'm guessing on about £600 worth of 'bits.' If I go to the local timber yard and buy 6mm marine and make my own the boat becomes a 'rule breaker' and you fall into the argument of class and originality.

My gut says repair her and ignore the 'rules' and just enjoy sailing her.Somebody wont be looking for a 40 year old Mirror for racing in national competitions.....

What have others done?

haventaclue

Sat, 08/27/2016 - 20:43

Rules rules rules
Rules are made to be broken LOL.Joking aside,if you are not going to race,repair it the best way you can without bankrupting yourself.
I got an old Mirror for free and spent aprox. 75yo yos and used what I had to hand as I was restoring an old Shakespeare at the same time. My album,in saying that,she's collected a few scrapes since then. http://s1004.photobucket.com/user/merc800nut/library/?sort=2&page=1

Wet Old Wobbler

Sun, 08/28/2016 - 09:32

Its clear that you had a lot of fixing to do to get her back in the water. Nice job and thank you for sharing the photo's.

David Cooper

Sat, 08/27/2016 - 21:33

The second hand cost of boats is so low that you're probably never going to be able to sell any old Mirror for more than £500 even if you keep it class legal and looking near new, so there's little point in worrying about how much the boat might end up being worth as you'll practically be giving it away regardless.

The one really good thing about a boat not being class legal though is that it frees you up to modify it in any way you like, making it better suited to cruising and for adventure, and that could boost its value back up again (if that even matters, because the real value is always in what you get out of it while using it). Given the low resell value, you might as well just aim to turn it into the boat that you most want to own for the most sensible amount of expenditure and don't worry about what it might sell for some day because you're always going to lose out heavily at that point no matter what you do. Whenever something needs mending or replacing, it's an opportunity to redesign it to make it more robust or to provide improved functionality. The whole underside can be covered in thick fibreglass so that you can pull it up on shingle and not depend so much on a trolley, and maybe that could enable you to use thinner ply than normal rather than thicker.

Wet Old Wobbler

Sun, 08/28/2016 - 09:40

I totally agree and you make some good points.

My concern is that £300 in bits could buy a 'sail today' version than weeks of work (well probably all winter now) before I can get out sailing. I do hate bodging things too so it has to be done right even if it's not exactly as it would have come out of the builders first time around.

I guess it's a 'your call' and you go with it. So to some £300 is worth it and others it isnt. You draw your own line in the sand.

If I use 6mm marine from my local timber yard its £54 all in than Robbins 5mm Gaboon ply at £128 delivered for 2 sheets.

I'm not that worried about resale value as I know they arent worth a great deal. I just want to be sailing.

David Cooper

Sun, 08/28/2016 - 19:04

If you can get it out on the water sooner by going with local wood, go for it. I doubt the boat would be banned from any normal races anyway as it would be at a clear disadvantage in having a thicker, heavier floor. The real value you'll get out of your boat is in sailing it, so maximising the amount you can do that should be your priority. But yes - it still wants to be a proper repair that will last.

beermatt's picture

beermatt

Mon, 08/29/2016 - 15:52

I can only second David's comments - i've kept my eye on resale values over the years and they're not very high. In fact for some reason in the UK at the moment the boat market (in general, not Mirrors specifically) seems to be really stalling.

Most of the resale value these days seems to be in the trailers. Good roadworthy trailers are difficult to come by, and for cheap boats the trailer can at least double their value, maybe more depending on the conditions.

There are some enthusiasts that might have a heart attack about throwing out an old Mirror hull, but they're basically just the sum of their parts, and once it gets past a certain stage in my opinion you have to call it a day. It's not nice to see one die, but compraed to for example cars they only have a lifespan of about 10-15 years, so really a small wooden boat that was constructed probably at home 50 years ago has had a good life.

You can probably buy one for about £350 ready to sail and save yourself the work. Work being what it comes down to - are you a project kind of person that enjoys the work, or do you just want to sail? People who love restoring boats and getting their teeth into a building project would save it, but if you just want to sail then there are cheaper and easier ways to get on the water.

Only thing to bear in mind is if you do buy another one "ready to sail", there's always going to be some jobs need doing on it. And David's point about customisation is a good one. If you know what you're doing then not only can you rely on the quality of the build, but you can also tweak it for whatever you intend on using it for; whereas if you buy one ready to go not only might it have faults/weaknesses, but there'll also be things you want to change to personal preference.

PuffinInTegel's picture

PuffinInTegel

Mon, 08/29/2016 - 11:12

Do you really want THAT MIRROR or ANY MIRROR?
In the former case, expenditure and effort play a lesser role on the decision "fix or buy another" , if you look forward to the pride of saying "I did all that by myself", then those parameters are even less important.
In the latter, buying a solid, well-maintained boat in sailing condition and which is within your budget is probably the better, judging by the extent of stuff you've listed. It would probably get you on the water before the end of the season too!

P.S. from your FB postings, I guess you've taken the plunge already and that restoration work is in full swing!

Wet Old Wobbler

Mon, 08/29/2016 - 17:11

I already had picked the mirror up.... it didn't look too bad just a panel and a bit of patching but once deconstruction started the real issues and rot showed up.

Reading the rules on repairs and the regs it became a question of do your buy to repair and stay legal for who ever has her after me or do I just repair it for me to sail.

Repairing for legal sake would be not cost effective in my opinion. 2 Aft floor panels, 2 forward floor panels, front upper panels both sides, forward transom, front deck, rear seat, king post, mast bases, forward gunnel and the 2 bow shapes and the foot stringer.....oh forgetting tape, resin, paints varnish, plugs and anything else that might be missing. With that amount of new panels thats over 40% so it would need a new number (the rules again....)

The more you dig the worse it becomes...

Looking for another that is ready to sail....Yes, its passed me as a thought. Out lay, nothing is close to me to view and decide on is the issue on that front. Trying to get it past the wife is another..... I have enough space for 1 and can get it into the workshop. I've been offered another, needs work also, but the wife isnt interested in me working on two at once.

The season is almost over and this will take a few weeks (months) to sort.

Been offered a flying 15 ........

PuffinInTegel's picture

PuffinInTegel

Mon, 08/29/2016 - 20:39

Now that's an offer! For free??
Difficult to launch and recover, I fear, although Uffa Fox claimed you could go camping, unbolt the keel and put it in your car trunk etc. He must have had a big car and some strong men to help him.
Aesthetically very beautiful boats. A friend of mine built one from scratch in diagonal strip planking and later went on to establish a boatbuilding business.
Cheers;
Gernot

Wet Old Wobbler

Wed, 08/31/2016 - 18:53

Started replacing the forward transom today. Cut out the rot to find that somebody had left the wire under the tape! Wired in a newly shaped panel of 6mm. Also cut out the rotten uppers too and made fill panels out of original material that wasn't rotten to sort that out and it looked OK. I was well pleased with what took several hours to do. Just need some resin and tape to glue it all together now.

So I moved onto the cockpit floor to lift the Elveron self bailer out.....thats been glassed in with a patched piece of ply underneath. Yes you guessed, it's rotten. So started to remove the bung plugs. Nearly all the brass screws had already snapped off and the bungs had been resined into the ply! Great.

The down side is the forward cockpit bulkhead by the bungs is also rotten! It's a choice of making a patch and cutting out the rot or just replacing the whole bulkhead.

Coming back to my first post, how far is gone too far. This mirror is too far gone. I hate to say it but I'd be better off looking for a better hull or getting a new kit and making one myself.

David Cooper

Thu, 09/01/2016 - 18:22

Life's too short to save every hull, and when the job's too extensive you'd be better off going the whole hog and just building a new one. Too much rot in too many places and it's a gonner. Salvage any parts you think might be useful and hunt for another hull.

Wet Old Wobbler

Thu, 09/01/2016 - 19:55

Just needs a chain saw and a large estate to take it away.

haventaclue

Fri, 09/02/2016 - 12:18

Good sledge hammer will do the job,and easier on the environment,not so easy on the back muscles :-)

mirrorpete

Fri, 09/02/2016 - 14:44

Don't forget to have a wake when the final demise occurs.
Pete

62816inBerlin's picture

62816inBerlin

Fri, 09/02/2016 - 21:31

If you do scrap her, let me know the number so that I can put her in the obituaries list.
My sympathy goes to you.
Gernot