Leaky self-bailer

My boat came to me with an ELVSTROM/ANDERSEN mini self-bailer which leaked water INTO the boat at all speeds rather than letting it out! It was very useful as an on-land self-bailer as I have yet to manage to completely rain-proof our Mirror. However, the leaking while sailing was such a nuisance that I removed it and temporarily sealed the hole. I checked the mechanism; the little metal flap moved freely and the neoprene seal appeared intact and not overly compressed. The fitting was well-sealed and did not leak (when closed the boat would gradually fill up with rain water).

Does anyone have any advice please on
a) how to prevent backflow of water into the boat through one of these devices (new neoprene seal, vaseline?)
b) how to prevent rain water flowing down shrouds and forestay and past the otherwise sound boat cover?

Any advice gratefully received.

Chris
Sail# 68430

Our is practically useless too.  As you say, it's letting water in at all speeds (maybe not all !).

We're looking to do some live-aboard cruising with our Mirror …so… I'm thinking I need to fill it up with silicone!

PuffinInTegel's picture

Hi Chris,
Happy New Year to begin with!
There is practically no way to prevent this. The worst is that water inevitably penetrates into the plywood core at these points, even on a relatively well-maintained boat. I gave up the over-boom cover after my mast fell overboard in a light breeze one day. The rot was not visible under the brightwork because the top layers of wood must have been well-soaked in resin. After repairing the damage (which included the replacement of an entire outer gunwale and part of the inner one, I resorted to a flat cover. The advantage, I discovered, was that I can drop the mast, boom and gaff into the boat without taking the sails down. I just loosen the lacing of the mainsail to the mast. Now it takes me far less time to get the boat in the water.
Cheers,
Gernot H.

curlew's picture

I think it is best to get rid of self bailers and have a good pump, like a Whale Urchin.
I drop my mast and put a tarpaulin cover right over, I need to slope the boat to stop water collecting, and the the horizontal mast acts as a ridge support.
david
Curlew

DavidH's picture

Strange that the self-bailers leak. We have self-bailers on our kayaks, and they are very efficient, and bone-dry when closed. My boat has been paddled over to Alderney from the South coast (not by me) so it's been well-used.
Sounds like the self-bailers on Mirrors are simply a bad design, or the bailer/hull interface is not up to the job.
Good advice about tarps and flat covers guys.
I've bought a hand-pump (bit like a bicycle pump with a non-return valve) for getting rid of water in the Mirror after bailing. These are cheap and quite effective - they have a proven track-record in closed-in sea kayaks in expelling water from inside the hull. Anyone have any experience with these in a Mirror?
Cheers,
David

curlew's picture

I suspect the problem is that the Mirror hull is very thin and bendy. I have had the same issue with a hatch cover that leaked.
Regarding Mirror pumps I have a Whale Urchin manual one and a Rule 360 gph electric, both good.
David
Curlew

DavidH's picture

I believe you are right about the thin, bendy hull being the problem. Our kayaks are composite-build, and although the hulls are thin, they are very stiff.

I've seen your dual bailing system on a You-Tube video. Very nice! It remains to be seen whether my hand-pump will be a temporary measure.
David
Lutra

PuffinInTegel's picture

Hi David,
your post about the little jobs reminded me that I was going to ask whether you have the brand and model data of your pump. I hadn't looked into the issue before, but took a litre or two over the gunwale a few weeks ago (when it's gusty here on our little lake with tree-covered shores and islands, the wind can swing by 90° in a jiffy) and I was made aware of the fact that bailing without heaving to is a very difficult business.
I woudn't rate this information as advertising (grin) which is otherwise deprecated on this forum.
Cheers,
Gernot H.

DavidH's picture

a Lomo pump on Google which is the same design as mine for £11.50. I haven't tried mine afloat, but the unit is powerful and easy to use. It will shift a couple of litres in about 5 seconds. You'll need some pipe to direct the water out of the boat. Wide diameter hose of any sort will do.
Let us know how you get on.
Cheers,
David
Lutra

PuffinInTegel's picture

Thanks, I looked at the youtube demo video by Lomo.
In a kayak, with confined space, these must be great. I found a similar model by Whale on the website of my yacht suppliers. The main disadvantage is that you need both hands to use them.
However I believe in an open cockpit, there's enough space to use a conventional scoop-type bailer and/or bucket. The former can be "operated" single-handedly so that I can keep a hand on the tiller. A foot-operated model would leave both hands free, but couldn't be worked in a kayak, of course.
All that being said, I've only capsized the Mirror twice in 35 years and maybe had any consideerable amount of water in the "bilge" on three or four other occasions, so I'll stick with the conventional tools.
An idea that had passed through my mind was to make a venturi-style device of a funnel and hose, the funnel being on a rod hooked over the stern so that it works like a self-bailer but without the need to put a hole in the bottom of the boat. If i'm ever bored enough, I might just try that some day.
Cheers,
Gernot