Cat rig plus spinnaker for single handing

Submitted by Bruce Moffatt on Thu, 10/24/2013 - 11:06

Forums:

Hi all,

When I bought Crackers the Mirror Dinghy it came with a spinnaker, and I put it aside thinking there's no way I would ever use it as I sail by myself. I don't race, ever. I was wondering about trying sailing without the jib, just to see how well (or poorly) it goes, and the thought occurred to me that maybe I could sail like this on days when I'm going to be trying to sail mostly away from the wind.

I'd be really interested in any thoughts or experiences about this. First, how well does a Mirror go upwind without a jib? I'd assume not very well, but I may be wrong. Second, what about running or very broad reaching with a spinnaker in light winds. Is it possible to handle single handed cat rigged plus a spinnaker do you think? I worry about handling a pole when single handing. Is there any point in trying a kite without a pole?

Cheers,

Bruce in Adelaide, South Australia

PuffinInTegel's picture

PuffinInTegel

Thu, 10/24/2013 - 17:54

Heather and her sister have used spinnakers WITH the jib up in light airs while cruising in British Columbia, as can be seen in their youtube video.
Unfortunately I haven't worked out how to install user-to-user comms on this platform, but I can give you her e-mail if you really want to know.
Perhaps she will read this posting: @ hdrugge are you out there?
I'm certainly looking into getting a spi, could have been useful getting to our destination on several occasions in the last two years.
Cheers
Gernot H.

sail_and_oar's picture

sail_and_oar

Thu, 10/24/2013 - 20:08

In the UK the Mirror is often raced as a singlehanded class and some of the singlehanders use spinnakers. I’ve tried to sail with a spinnaker with mixed results and once crossed the Solent with the spinnaker wrapped around the bows and the sheet and guy trailing under the boat. When I returned I removed the whole thing, good riddance to it.

If you practice long and hard enough you may reach the point where you benefit from it. It will take time and commitment. There is no need to leave the jib at home when using the spinnaker. You could set the jib up with a downhaul so you can secure it on deck without leaving the cockpit. The racers mostly use all three sails.

Yes you can sail without a jib. If no other means are available this is a way of depowering the rig in stronger winds. Many of the older boats have a second mast step further forward. The Mk1 Proctor Gull was similar and I have a friend who always sails in this manner. I have never tried it.

One of the interesting things about the jib is it’s very low centre of effort. For a given crew weight a main and jib boat can get away with less crew weight than a cat rig of similar size on the same hull in the same wind. It is usually accepted the sloop will point higher. People have argued about this for decades and forever will (especially the guys who like lugsails). It all depends on who you ask.

If you try sailing jibless with the mast in it’s normal position several things will happen, most of them annoying. The centre of effort of the sailplan will move back and a much bigger proportion of the force from the sail will be transferred through the rudder than is normal. I find this pretty tiring. When sailing close hauled you will find the sail has to be let out further than normal. Because the luff of the main is supported on spars it doesn’t give such a good visual indication of the most efficient angle on the wind. When tacking you have to remember to sheet in as the boat comes up into the wind or it is all too easy to miss stays. When it’s really windy and I am sailing with just a reefed main I will sheet in then grab hold of the boom and pull it right over my head to keep the sail driving as I come up into the wind. If I possibly can I use a jib, I have a small one for strong winds. Life would be much harder without it.

Cliff

curlew's picture

curlew

Thu, 10/24/2013 - 19:18

The MIrror was designed to be used with mainsail alone if wanted. A forward mast step is provided for this purpose. I use the aft step and sometimes sail with mainsail alone. It is very successful and the boat points closer than with the jib, as is normal for a boat with a single sail.
I have used my spinnaker as an asymmetric, for which purpose I cut a bit off the foot. I use a pole clipped the the shrouds at the chain plates. It can really make the boat move, but I find the problem is that the direction you can sail is very limited. I think for normal cruising, the ordinary rig gives several choices to suit conditions. For instance, mainsail alone for going to windward in strong wind, jib alone for running before a strong wind, both sails goosewinged for running, etc etc. In addition to this, I have reef points in both main and jib, giving yet more flexibility. I also occasionally use two jibs, set as twins.
I should also mention that the spinnaker can be used as a second mainsail, poled out from the mast on the opposite side. This was the traditional spinnaker of the 19th century.
David

Jaunty

Thu, 03/17/2016 - 18:50

As a single-hander I use the mailsail (only) in the aft step position in stronger breeze. The luff is bar tight, as is the foot, kicker likewise (centre of effort forward). She sails brilliantly and without vice on all points of sail. No helm, well balanced.

Jaunty doesn't have a forward step, or a second chainplate position. Given the performance described above, I am unsure whether its makes much difference. Others will know better than me.

beermatt's picture

beermatt

Thu, 07/28/2016 - 13:22

Looking at the jib/cat/mast-step from a different perspective, I've been out before with the mast stepped forward expecting strong winds, only to find it was much calmer than I expected. So have hoisted the jib despite the mast being in the forward position. It's difficult to say how it affected performance because I've not got anything to compare it to in identical conditions. And the only recent one that springs to mind I was nearly always on a broad reach, with little pointing to do. I rememeber it made good progress though, can't remember how much tiller correction was required exactly but certainly nothing excessive.

Going back to the original question, I found the whole topic interesting because I have a spinnaker that came with the boat still in it's original packaging with all (I think) the accessories that I've never opened or tried fitting. The only thing I know is that most of the videos of boats capsizing on youtube are nearly all using spinnakers! And that's been enough reason for me to never bother!! If I raced - with rescue cover etc - then I'd give it a go. But out on the sea cruising on my own I'd rather not risk having the big capsize-canvas up in the air, even in light winds! (Maybe I'm wrong and should give it a try?)

Also I don't like running downwind with the main in any decent wind, because the boom only allows you to sheet out up to 90 degrees so if you want to suddenly completely de-power (due to a gust, waves, general instability, etc) you can't. So unless it's very calm, if I have to go directly downwind I'll usually drop the main and just use the jib. So I have wondered if when running in medium winds (too slow with just the jib, but out of my comfort zone to hoist the main, especially if gusty), whether a spinnaker on its own would be safer than the main and jib together? Are spinnakers easy to depower easily?

David Cooper

Thu, 07/28/2016 - 18:55

I don't know how well it would work. If sailing alone, it might be easier to cope with a mainsail up in a sudden blast of wind than a spinnaker - the spinnaker's a bit of a bag and might not depower enough for you even if you let the sheet go completely free. Another option might be to use two jibs at the same time - that would give you the same total sail area as a mainsail. You wouldn't be able to attach it to the same forestay, but it wouldn't need to be so tight going directly downwind anyway. Visibility forwards could be a problem, so you'd have to find one with a big window, although it could be higher than the other jib as the top could be right against the end of the spinnaker crane. It would only need a jibsheet on one side and you may be able to feed it through the same fairlead.

beermatt's picture

beermatt

Sun, 07/31/2016 - 10:58

> "the spinnaker's a bit of a bag and might not depower enough for you even if you let the sheet go completely free"

Yeah I wasn't sure but that's the impression I got. I like the two jibs idea, do you use jib sticks for them both? I sometimes go wind-a-wing in really light conditions with the main and jib, and whichever sail is slightly biased to windward only takes a slight shift for it to try to jump over the other side.

David Cooper

Sun, 07/31/2016 - 19:56

Holding both jibs out with poles would be best - it's bad enough just trying to keep one flying well going directly downwind without a pole and you lose a lot of area as it curves too. However, I'd try using a spinnaker pole instead as you can attach it to the sheet instead of the corner of the sail, so in a strong wind situation you could let both sails go in a gust without then having to go forward to stick the spikes back in to get back up to speed - you might still need to go forward to shove the poles back along the sheets to the sail, but there would be no need to spend time trying to hit bullseyes with jibstick spikes. You want to minimise the work you have to do away from the tiller.

beermatt's picture

beermatt

Mon, 08/29/2016 - 22:36

Yeah I noticed about the sail curving and taking the power out too, it's a real pain. I have a spinnaker pole, and considered taking it with me last time, in fact I've considered taking it with me several times, but it's a big unweildy thing and I usually end up deciding against it. Mine is like a T shape, except that it pivots so can be almost straight, still long and cumbersome though! Maybe I need a smaller/simpler one. Or just persevere with that one! Thanks for the tips though, I'll make a note and give it a try when I get chance. I didn't realise you could attach it to the sheet, for some reason I always assumed it had to be in the eyelets, so that will likely come in useful.

David Cooper

Tue, 08/30/2016 - 19:15

My memory may be wrong about the dimensions of the poles, so it may be that a spinnaker pole is too long. I have a Mirror jib stick somewhere but can't find it, and while I think from memory they're of similar length, I may be misremembering. They're certainly the same diameter as they fit the same clip on the foredeck and they're little different in weight. I never used the spinnaker pole with the jib, and it may not have worked on our jib sheets as they were rather thick, but modern jib sheets are thinner and would likely work, but it's something that needs to be tried out with borrowed kit before you spend money on it. Perhaps asking about it on the Facebook page would get feedback from people who are better placed to do the experiment (I'm still looking for a hull).

sail_and_oar's picture

sail_and_oar

Tue, 08/30/2016 - 20:47

The jibstick I use on the Mirror is 1350 mm long (53 inches). It has the usual spike fitting which you poke into the clew of the sail. Personally I prefer a deep fork which straddles the jib sheet. I have one on my Wayfarer, it's much easier to set but you do have to rig it the right way up.

On our Westerly we use the spinnaker pole for booming out headsails. The headsail sheets are too thick to fit the pole so we tied a loop of rope through the headsail clew with a fishermans bend. This has served for at least 5 years with no problems.

Cliff

Jaunty

Tue, 09/06/2016 - 21:55

Jaunty has only the aft mast-step and chain plates but as I seem more and more to be just using the main alone, I wondered whether I should do as designed and get a forward mast position set up.

1. Opinions please, whether the sailing difference justifies the effort?
2. If so, what is the correct distance forward for the new mast step and chainplates (from the existing aft set)?

I'd be very grateful for your assistance. Cheers!

mirrorpete

Wed, 09/07/2016 - 03:07

I have not had a forward mast position step in years. I never sail my Mirror without a jib.
Pete

PuffinInTegel's picture

PuffinInTegel

Thu, 09/08/2016 - 20:02

Hello Jaunty,
I've used the foreward mast step once, to reduce sail area without reefing (http://mirrordiscussforum.org/documents/stories/jf2012english.pdf , page 13 onwards) . The boat is of course simpler to operate with only one sheet to handle, and so the forward position and cat-rig would be good for letting children get the feel of sailing. However the boat does develop an incredible weather helm when running downwind as there is no jib to at least compensate a little for the centre of effort being way outside of the boat's centre of lateral resistance.
If you see no reason for sailing without the jib set, then there's no reason for adding the forward mast step and chainplates.
Have fun while the season lasts,
Gernot H.